As the NDA government enters the final year of its tenure, Union Minister Nitin Gadkari exudes confidences of a doer, minus the showmanship. In his world, everything is doable provided the National Green Tribunal (NGT) and judiciary don’t come in the way. In a lively interaction with Business Standard journalists spread over two hours, the minister of road transport, highways, shipping, water resources, river development and Ganga rejuvenation, shares his achievements and plans. Edited excerpts:
There is a perception that though you have announced several projects, there is a gap on the ground. Do you agree?
I do not have a track record of false promises. I deal with large-size programmes—Rs 1 trillion upwards. Even my party colleagues don’t want to believe (that these projects are getting executed). I have done everything what I have announced but I am helpless if NGT or the courts come in the way. The problem is that people are not used to seeing promises made by politicians materialising. If I say I have saved Rs 160 billion in land acquisition for the Delhi-Mumbai highway which will save 12 hours of journey and cut short the distance by 125 km, people don’t want to believe. But Rs 440 billion worth of contracts for Mumbai-Vadodra have already been awarded. Alignment from Delhi-Jaipur has been finalised. Delhi-Ahmedabad-Mumbai land acquisition would have cost Rs 70 million a hectare but in the backward areas of Haryana, Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh, Gujarat and Maharashtra, it will only cost Rs 8 million. Work on it will start in 15 days.
How will you finance the highway projects?
My budget is about Rs 700-750 billion and my toll collection is Rs 100 billion. I have put 40 per cent projects under the hybrid annuity mode where land acquisition will be done by us. We have funded some projects through budgetary support. Of those, 100 were identified and nine have been sold under the TOT (toll, operate, transfer) model. We expected Rs 60 billion but got Rs 100 billion. In the bond market, we can raise Rs 5 trillion. But I’m not raising through bonds but looking at listing of the National Highways Authority of India. Besides, there are more projects that can be monetised for 15 years. I do not need government money.
Is the bullet train competing with the highways?
Our first priority is the waterways. We have planned 10 waterways. I intend to build 111 waterways. I plan to begin work on 34-35 waterways during my tenure. Then comes the Railways and third is roadways.
Three years ago, you had said land acquisition was not a problem. Do you maintain that?
My track record proves that. We have completed Rs 700 billion worth of land acquisition and compensation. We have completed the ring road project in 500 days. We paid Rs 60 billion as compensation. Under the Land Acquisition Act, we are paying 1.5 times more than the market price as compensation in cash.
But the bullet train project is facing land acquisition issues. Isn’t it?
It is because of the railway system. Almost 80 per cent of land acquisition is completed for the Mumbai-Vadodra express highway project.
How will the government execute mega highway projects, logistics parks and expressways with a headless NHAI, which has seen 4 chairmen in the last two years?
In April-May, NHAI has awarded as many projects as it did in the entire 2016-17. In the current financial year, NHAI will award 12,000 km. Appointing or changing the chairman is not in my hands. No matter how the people are, it depends on the leader how he gets the work done.
Was there a need to change the formula for per day road construction?
We have kept both the formulas. We are now following the international norms.
What is the broad action plan for the fifth year in government?
The PM has appointed a committee on the completion of four years of the NDA government and I head it. The first thing I suggested was that we should not make any fresh announcement. We should complete the work started in the last four years and should emphasize on schemes that benefit the public directly. The 48 years of Gandhi family and 48 months of the BJP government should be seen. We don’t claim that we have solved all the problems. Agriculture crisis is still there and we are facing hurdles in giving minimum support price (MSP). Sugar related issues are there, banks do not have enough funds to lend.
When you came to power, you had formed a panel on onion to check prices?
Onion, tomato and potato are related to demand and supply. If we have pre-cooling warehouses for potato and tomatoes and separate storage for onion, we could balance the rate fluctuations with it and price would not rise.
You had earlier said GST was good? What are your views now?
I am not an economy expert. But I can say that it is the biggest reform in the country since Independence. Black money has reduced, companies are getting registered. By and large people are happy. It will reduce corruption.
Why hasn’t the economy picked up yet?
Steel sector was in a mess earlier, now it is better. But crude oil has impacted our economy.
What is your understanding about industrialists?
Everyone is working. There are three types of industrialists: one who just takes money from banks, goes bankrupt and runs away. Such people should be called fraud and strict action should be taken against them. Then there are the ones who have been in business for decades, who have been paying interest to banks and have landed in some trouble due to circumstances. They should be helped if their track record is good. Third, is a cyclical industry such as sugar where prices are low…. When I took charge, 403 highway projects of Rs 3.75 trillion were stuck. With the help of the PM and the finance minister, 22 Cabinet decisions were taken. Today I can say that I saved banks from NPAs of Rs 3 trillion. All projects are working, companies are working fine.
To tackle pollution, you are not comfortable with increasing the number of vehicles on the road. Your comment?
It is a Rs 4 trillion industry with a significant contribution in exports. This is one of the best performing sector. My support is for India to become an auto export hub. I just suggested that they should change with time. We will walk forward either with you or without you, if you resist... Ethanol, methanol, bio-diesel, bio-CNG, electric cars should be manufactured.
This government earlier made a plan for 100 per cent electric mobility by 2030 and then later junked it. How will domestic sector scale up?
Any good idea and technology should be promoted. There will soon be rapid work in charging infrastructure.
In electric cars, what you are saying China has already done and they are already going ahead in battery manufacturing. Why is it that India can’t move at the same speed?
In Gujarat, near Vadodara, China’s largest electric car making company has set up a manufacturing unit. The price of lithium-ion battery has come down by 60 per cent since I started talking about it. When volume increases, cost comes down. We have 13 battery manufacturers in India. Research and innovation will shape the sector and bring down prices. I have asked the companies to come forward with whatever fuel technology they have and tell me what clearances they need, what policy support. But nobody has come.
After Walmart bought a controlling stake in Flipkart, retail traders are worried. Your take?
We are in a global economy. We should think global and be Indian from the heart. Small traders will set their own marketing strategy. There will be competition, so they need to package and market well.
Why must you oppose foreign direct investment (FDI) in multi-brand retail then?
Some decisions are political…. We won’t take a stand that it politically harmful. I am 100 per cent committed to my conviction and I am proud of it….
RSS recently pointed out that the disinvestment process in Air India wouldn’t work. You head the ministers’ group. What’s your view?
I'm not the spokesperson for RSS. But I have talked to the Minister of State for Aviation Jayant Sinha. He told me his concerns and I pointed out what I felt. I told him that taking all issue into account, he should take the right decision which is good for the country.
You said you will set up 2000 river ports. What’s happening there?
There are 111 rivers and 11 major ports in the country. There are another 200 minor ports which are run by state governments and private players. We will bring floating jetty and convert them to passenger and river ports. Other than that in Mumbai itself, in the Eastern and Western river front, 27 ports are being built- approval has been given. From Thane to Virar, 40 ports are being built. There are 60 and 65 ports in Ganga and Brahamaputra. During my regime, around 450-500 river ports will be built. Out of that, work has started on 4 multi modal hubs- Varanasi, Sahibganj, Haldia and Gazipur. Out of that, the one in Varanasi will be completed in October. From Varanasi, one can reach Allahabad. There will be six river ports in Allahabad.
You have said 70-80 per cent of Ganga will be cleaned during your regime. But Yamuna is still dirty. So how will you develop the eco system of clean river?
The work on project for cleansing Yamuna water is going slow. I am also concerned about it. I met the Chief Minister and Governor of Delhi three times about it. … One of the challenges is that nothing has been done regarding solid waste management. Solid waste management work will start soon. Operational maintenance of such projects has been given to the private sector.
What is your plan to tackle water and air pollution in Delhi?
We have already completed a research report. We identified traffic jam spots and the reasons for it. We have prepared a plan for Rs 400 billion and are working on it. The Ring Road which the PM will inaugurate will reduce 27 per cent pollution and 40 per cent traffic jam. It includes Delhi-Meerut Expressway. I feel it is possible…. We are improving on the black spots (accident prone) that have been identified. In Delhi, the problem is of dust, we need vacuum cleaning system. We are working on a Rs 70 billion Dwarka Expressway project. Tender has been allotted. ..For air pollution, we should insist on biofuel and electric. The diesel bus costs Rs 110 /km, ethanol costs Rs 79/km in my city Nagpur and electric Rs 50/km. So we can reduce the ticket price. The problem is all state transport corporations are in losses and no one is willing to finance it. ..We should adopt the London transport model. We have signed agreement with them and the World Bank. According to that model, the driver belongs to the operator and the conductor belongs to the corporation. They will guarantee minimum 225 km a day to the corporation….I am trying my level best as transport minister for this model in all Indian cities. This can also be useful for rural transport. Delhi’s problem also comes from burning of crop residue. The Cabinet has passed biofuel policy under which ethanol will be made from cotton straw, bagasse, rice straw and other agriculture residue.
How’s it dealing with the Delhi government?
The Delhi government is not moving according to my expectation but I am having a dialogue with all stakeholders. Regarding Yamuna, unfortunately the NGT is giving a lot of problems. My plan was to model the 35-km river front on the lines of the reclamation garden in Singapore. The government could finance it partially. It can be like a greenhouse for Delhi. A lot of things like hovercraft service to the Taj Mahal and other such things can be done. However, there are issues being raised by the NGT. My suggestion is that the ministries of environment, urban development and highways, lieutenant governor and the Delhi draw up a plan to make Delhi pollution-free in two to three years. We can take it as a collective responsibility.
When do you think the Motor Vehicle Bill will be passed?
Parliament is not allowed to function. The deputy speaker has promised me in the presence of all leaders that in the next session, the Bill will be tabled in the very first day.
What is the scope of internal dissent and discussion in the working of the government?
There is a scope of discussion…. We are a disciplined party. We discuss, debate and argue but when we come out, we are together in our opinion.
Before the 2019 elections, what is your assessment of the party? And what do you think about the Opposition unity?
People always come together against someone who is strong when they feel they won't be able to defeat you individually. Politics is a game of competitions, permutations and combinations. No one is a permanent friend or enemy in politics. Most politics is played on convenience but mutual relationships should remain nice. …
Are you worried that other political parties are coming together?
The word 'worry' is not in my dictionary.
There is a perception that though you have announced several projects, there is a gap on the ground. Do you agree?
I do not have a track record of false promises. I deal with large-size programmes—Rs 1 trillion upwards. Even my party colleagues don’t want to believe (that these projects are getting executed). I have done everything what I have announced but I am helpless if NGT or the courts come in the way. The problem is that people are not used to seeing promises made by politicians materialising. If I say I have saved Rs 160 billion in land acquisition for the Delhi-Mumbai highway which will save 12 hours of journey and cut short the distance by 125 km, people don’t want to believe. But Rs 440 billion worth of contracts for Mumbai-Vadodra have already been awarded. Alignment from Delhi-Jaipur has been finalised. Delhi-Ahmedabad-Mumbai land acquisition would have cost Rs 70 million a hectare but in the backward areas of Haryana, Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh, Gujarat and Maharashtra, it will only cost Rs 8 million. Work on it will start in 15 days.
How will you finance the highway projects?
My budget is about Rs 700-750 billion and my toll collection is Rs 100 billion. I have put 40 per cent projects under the hybrid annuity mode where land acquisition will be done by us. We have funded some projects through budgetary support. Of those, 100 were identified and nine have been sold under the TOT (toll, operate, transfer) model. We expected Rs 60 billion but got Rs 100 billion. In the bond market, we can raise Rs 5 trillion. But I’m not raising through bonds but looking at listing of the National Highways Authority of India. Besides, there are more projects that can be monetised for 15 years. I do not need government money.
Is the bullet train competing with the highways?
Our first priority is the waterways. We have planned 10 waterways. I intend to build 111 waterways. I plan to begin work on 34-35 waterways during my tenure. Then comes the Railways and third is roadways.
Three years ago, you had said land acquisition was not a problem. Do you maintain that?
My track record proves that. We have completed Rs 700 billion worth of land acquisition and compensation. We have completed the ring road project in 500 days. We paid Rs 60 billion as compensation. Under the Land Acquisition Act, we are paying 1.5 times more than the market price as compensation in cash.
But the bullet train project is facing land acquisition issues. Isn’t it?
It is because of the railway system. Almost 80 per cent of land acquisition is completed for the Mumbai-Vadodra express highway project.
How will the government execute mega highway projects, logistics parks and expressways with a headless NHAI, which has seen 4 chairmen in the last two years?
In April-May, NHAI has awarded as many projects as it did in the entire 2016-17. In the current financial year, NHAI will award 12,000 km. Appointing or changing the chairman is not in my hands. No matter how the people are, it depends on the leader how he gets the work done.
Was there a need to change the formula for per day road construction?
We have kept both the formulas. We are now following the international norms.
What is the broad action plan for the fifth year in government?
The PM has appointed a committee on the completion of four years of the NDA government and I head it. The first thing I suggested was that we should not make any fresh announcement. We should complete the work started in the last four years and should emphasize on schemes that benefit the public directly. The 48 years of Gandhi family and 48 months of the BJP government should be seen. We don’t claim that we have solved all the problems. Agriculture crisis is still there and we are facing hurdles in giving minimum support price (MSP). Sugar related issues are there, banks do not have enough funds to lend.
When you came to power, you had formed a panel on onion to check prices?
Onion, tomato and potato are related to demand and supply. If we have pre-cooling warehouses for potato and tomatoes and separate storage for onion, we could balance the rate fluctuations with it and price would not rise.
You had earlier said GST was good? What are your views now?
I am not an economy expert. But I can say that it is the biggest reform in the country since Independence. Black money has reduced, companies are getting registered. By and large people are happy. It will reduce corruption.
Why hasn’t the economy picked up yet?
Steel sector was in a mess earlier, now it is better. But crude oil has impacted our economy.
What is your understanding about industrialists?
Everyone is working. There are three types of industrialists: one who just takes money from banks, goes bankrupt and runs away. Such people should be called fraud and strict action should be taken against them. Then there are the ones who have been in business for decades, who have been paying interest to banks and have landed in some trouble due to circumstances. They should be helped if their track record is good. Third, is a cyclical industry such as sugar where prices are low…. When I took charge, 403 highway projects of Rs 3.75 trillion were stuck. With the help of the PM and the finance minister, 22 Cabinet decisions were taken. Today I can say that I saved banks from NPAs of Rs 3 trillion. All projects are working, companies are working fine.
To tackle pollution, you are not comfortable with increasing the number of vehicles on the road. Your comment?
It is a Rs 4 trillion industry with a significant contribution in exports. This is one of the best performing sector. My support is for India to become an auto export hub. I just suggested that they should change with time. We will walk forward either with you or without you, if you resist... Ethanol, methanol, bio-diesel, bio-CNG, electric cars should be manufactured.
This government earlier made a plan for 100 per cent electric mobility by 2030 and then later junked it. How will domestic sector scale up?
Any good idea and technology should be promoted. There will soon be rapid work in charging infrastructure.
In electric cars, what you are saying China has already done and they are already going ahead in battery manufacturing. Why is it that India can’t move at the same speed?
In Gujarat, near Vadodara, China’s largest electric car making company has set up a manufacturing unit. The price of lithium-ion battery has come down by 60 per cent since I started talking about it. When volume increases, cost comes down. We have 13 battery manufacturers in India. Research and innovation will shape the sector and bring down prices. I have asked the companies to come forward with whatever fuel technology they have and tell me what clearances they need, what policy support. But nobody has come.
After Walmart bought a controlling stake in Flipkart, retail traders are worried. Your take?
We are in a global economy. We should think global and be Indian from the heart. Small traders will set their own marketing strategy. There will be competition, so they need to package and market well.
Why must you oppose foreign direct investment (FDI) in multi-brand retail then?
Some decisions are political…. We won’t take a stand that it politically harmful. I am 100 per cent committed to my conviction and I am proud of it….
RSS recently pointed out that the disinvestment process in Air India wouldn’t work. You head the ministers’ group. What’s your view?
I'm not the spokesperson for RSS. But I have talked to the Minister of State for Aviation Jayant Sinha. He told me his concerns and I pointed out what I felt. I told him that taking all issue into account, he should take the right decision which is good for the country.
You said you will set up 2000 river ports. What’s happening there?
There are 111 rivers and 11 major ports in the country. There are another 200 minor ports which are run by state governments and private players. We will bring floating jetty and convert them to passenger and river ports. Other than that in Mumbai itself, in the Eastern and Western river front, 27 ports are being built- approval has been given. From Thane to Virar, 40 ports are being built. There are 60 and 65 ports in Ganga and Brahamaputra. During my regime, around 450-500 river ports will be built. Out of that, work has started on 4 multi modal hubs- Varanasi, Sahibganj, Haldia and Gazipur. Out of that, the one in Varanasi will be completed in October. From Varanasi, one can reach Allahabad. There will be six river ports in Allahabad.
You have said 70-80 per cent of Ganga will be cleaned during your regime. But Yamuna is still dirty. So how will you develop the eco system of clean river?
The work on project for cleansing Yamuna water is going slow. I am also concerned about it. I met the Chief Minister and Governor of Delhi three times about it. … One of the challenges is that nothing has been done regarding solid waste management. Solid waste management work will start soon. Operational maintenance of such projects has been given to the private sector.
What is your plan to tackle water and air pollution in Delhi?
We have already completed a research report. We identified traffic jam spots and the reasons for it. We have prepared a plan for Rs 400 billion and are working on it. The Ring Road which the PM will inaugurate will reduce 27 per cent pollution and 40 per cent traffic jam. It includes Delhi-Meerut Expressway. I feel it is possible…. We are improving on the black spots (accident prone) that have been identified. In Delhi, the problem is of dust, we need vacuum cleaning system. We are working on a Rs 70 billion Dwarka Expressway project. Tender has been allotted. ..For air pollution, we should insist on biofuel and electric. The diesel bus costs Rs 110 /km, ethanol costs Rs 79/km in my city Nagpur and electric Rs 50/km. So we can reduce the ticket price. The problem is all state transport corporations are in losses and no one is willing to finance it. ..We should adopt the London transport model. We have signed agreement with them and the World Bank. According to that model, the driver belongs to the operator and the conductor belongs to the corporation. They will guarantee minimum 225 km a day to the corporation….I am trying my level best as transport minister for this model in all Indian cities. This can also be useful for rural transport. Delhi’s problem also comes from burning of crop residue. The Cabinet has passed biofuel policy under which ethanol will be made from cotton straw, bagasse, rice straw and other agriculture residue.
How’s it dealing with the Delhi government?
The Delhi government is not moving according to my expectation but I am having a dialogue with all stakeholders. Regarding Yamuna, unfortunately the NGT is giving a lot of problems. My plan was to model the 35-km river front on the lines of the reclamation garden in Singapore. The government could finance it partially. It can be like a greenhouse for Delhi. A lot of things like hovercraft service to the Taj Mahal and other such things can be done. However, there are issues being raised by the NGT. My suggestion is that the ministries of environment, urban development and highways, lieutenant governor and the Delhi draw up a plan to make Delhi pollution-free in two to three years. We can take it as a collective responsibility.
When do you think the Motor Vehicle Bill will be passed?
Parliament is not allowed to function. The deputy speaker has promised me in the presence of all leaders that in the next session, the Bill will be tabled in the very first day.
What is the scope of internal dissent and discussion in the working of the government?
There is a scope of discussion…. We are a disciplined party. We discuss, debate and argue but when we come out, we are together in our opinion.
Before the 2019 elections, what is your assessment of the party? And what do you think about the Opposition unity?
People always come together against someone who is strong when they feel they won't be able to defeat you individually. Politics is a game of competitions, permutations and combinations. No one is a permanent friend or enemy in politics. Most politics is played on convenience but mutual relationships should remain nice. …
Are you worried that other political parties are coming together?
The word 'worry' is not in my dictionary.
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